In Development
Marvel Heads Toward Avengers, DC Heads for Imminent Change
Posted by Neil Miller (neil@filmschoolrejects.com) on June 24, 2008
Earlier this afternoon I made my regular stop over to Nikki Finke’s site Deadline Hollywood Daily to see what was what in the world of tormenting the Hollywood brass, when I came across an incredibly interesting article titled “A Reboot of DC Comics Before Comic-Con?” In the article, Finke plays outsider, discussing from afar the various problems that have been exposed in the operations of DC Comics and parent company Time Warner that have led to some fanboy uprisings and some seriously flawed film productions. It reminded me of a discussion I had a while back with some of the other editors here at FSR, an analyzation of why DC, with the obvious exception of Christopher Nolan’s Batman franchise, has really floundered with their cinematic adaptations.
What really blows my mind is that the rights to DC’s library of stories is held solely by Warner Brothers, allowing them to virtually do anything they want with the DC Universe. If they wanted to make a Justice League movie they could very well… Oh wait, they tried that. It has been pronounced dead in development. It is problems like these, as well as a waning standing in actual comic sales, that seem to have put DC Comics Senior VP Dan DiDio’s head on the chopping block and Warner Bros. President/COO Alan Horn in the cross hairs of many fans.
Ironically, this article could not have come at a worse time for DC, as on the same day director Jon Favreau, whose Iron Man proved that Marvel’s decision to seek autonomy with their films by creating Marvel Studios was nothing short of brilliant, talked to the USA Today about the Avengers film, which is set to hit theaters in the summer of 2011. Favs talked about the potential line-up of the Avengers film, saying “the ones Marvel is talking about now are Captain America, Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man and Iron Man. I would love to see that.”
You see, for Marvel Studios it is still all about rights. They currently still own the rights to these five characters, whereas the rights to the X-Men and The Fantastic Four are held by 20th Century Fox and the rights to Spider-Man are held by Sony. This is the only thing standing in their way of bringing these characters into the fold — though I don’t think that fans will have a problem with that, as they are just excited about the possibility of a well-made Avengers film. And why shouldn’t they be excited — with the success of both Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk, Marvel has proved that once they had the rights to make the movies that they wanted to make, they have come up with gold. One would think that the same is possible for DC, as the rights issue isn’t something that stands in their way. Unfortunately, it appears that having the rights to your own catalog of superheroes has nothing to do with making good movies.
What do you think of the Avengers line-up that Jon Favreau mentioned? As well, what do you think is wrong with DC?
Read more articles by Neil Miller
18 Comments
June 24th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
As far as The Avengers line-up that was announced it seems like a good solid team. they should also include Wasp, making it an even six members(providing that The Hulk is actually a member of the team and not the villain.) as well as include a female member. There are oyher female Avengers, but none of them were a part of the original team. DC is a different breed of comic movie. For the exeption of Batman all of the characters have very colorful outfits and almost over the top powers and ideals. which make them harder to convey in film. The marvel universe is set in the real world as we know it and therefore makes the setting, stories and people easier to relate to. If DC could tone down the color and sheer unbelievability of their universe they could pull of films like Marvel has done so well.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I’m liking the Avengers line-up. It’s about superheroes that I don’t know that much about yet. And they can bring in the more popular ones in sequels, etc.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
The Batman franchise is doing fine for DC. It might even be the biggest movie this year. However, they blew it badly with Superman Returns when Lex Luthor conspired to pull a real estate scam…AGAIN! The other thing they blew is not following through with Joss Wheadon for Wonder Woman. I believe that for once a female superhero had a chance to leap in the big leagues with Joss Wheadon directing. He has an excellent track record with an established fan base.
June 24th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
i agree with juggernaut. DC comics are traditionally (apart from batman and superman) played out with characters that are very unrelatable. With the exception of a few..ie the flash and green lantern (the only 2 i can think of right now), most of their characters have superpowers and origins that will be hard to convey to the masses.
i know theres a film about Shazam coming out but its gonna be hard to pull in audiences for that one…a kid who matures into a fully fledged adult with superpowers via the mere mention of a magic word…cant see that going down as well as Iron Man.
Anyway, the crunch of it is, perharps DC do need a reboot or relaunch a la The Incredible Hulk. The main characters do not need to be altered so much, however their origins, their worlds..can be updated to bring it in line with the recent surge in superhero movies.
P.S. is it too soon to ask for a superman reboot or relaunch like TIH?? superman returns was like spidey 3 in my eyes…it brought in the bucks but it was a major major failure in terms of moviemaking. New director (louis letterier anyone?) new cast….new everything!
June 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Juggernaut: I agree about Wasp, it would be great to see her in the film, especially since her and Hank Pym go literally hand-in-hand and he’s already in it. I disagree about DC needing to be more believable. DC’s heroes are more of a Pantheon of mythological Gods, and would make an awe-inspiring transition into cinema if they were treated as such. For instance, the trailer for Superman Returns really got my hopes up with a chilling Marlon Brando voice over saying something like “they are good people, they wish to be. They just need a light to guide them. It’s for this reason I’ve sent them you, my only son”. That’s perfect for a really spectacular re-introduction to Superman; he should be there to lift us up and inspire us. I got the impression from the preview that this would have been the underlying moral of the movie, not… umm… don’t trust bald guys.
Also, regarding Ant-man: I thought the Ant-Man film was going to be a separate entity from the Avengers series of films, and would be centered around the Kirkman version of the character. Has this changed? It wouldn’t make much sense if Marvel released a movie next year about Kirkman’s Ant-Man and then put the Hank Pym Ant-Man in the Avengers film.
June 24th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
WELL, I GOT TO I AM EXITED ABOUT Avengers. but i am nerves about the the relese date . cause what I thought was great about iorn man was the script was realy well fleshed out . And it was very very smart of marvel to tie in the Jonney Stark in The Incredble Hulk . but I think it Could be Etheir one of two Things . 1 It could be great summer blockbuster ( expelly if Jon favrou directs and writes ) or we could get A disater . like … dare I say the worst super-hero movie ever made Batman and robin ? But seeing Jon favros work in iron man I think it will be good . and I don’t know about ant-man . And the thing about dc . is I feel There not trying as hard To turn there comics into movies as much as marvel dose . and I think one reason might be cause . there characters a bit to simuler . and Their Big cash Crop is the reserection of batman Takes three years to make a sequil and Superman Is MORE hard to explain than the characters in marvel. also i think the MAIN PROBLEN WITH DC COMICS ARE THEY DON’T PLAY AS WELL TOWARDS THE AUDINCE . CAUSE DC IS MORE ALIENS FROM OTHER WORLDS AND NOT SAY A TEENAGER IN NEW YORK THATS BITTEN BY A SPIDER .
June 24th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
The Avengers line-up sounds good, but Im not too keen on Ant-Man as a superhero. The problem with DC is that they have unrelateable characters that frankly aren’t that good. They don’t have interesting back stories and most powers are pretty lame. Also, the bad guys, with the exception of Batman’s nemesis are also pretty lame and normally just normal people gone completely crazy. However, maybe they should introduce flaws into thier charcters, give Batman a serious drinking problem, make Superman disillusioned with saving humanity from its own destruction. if they made their characters a bit more believeable and a bit more human, then they could be onto something. And give the bad guys cool powers.
June 24th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I 100 percent agree with nish on “DC is that they have unrelateable characters that frankly aren’t that good.”
June 25th, 2008 at 10:08 am
I can’t believe what I’m hearing. Unrelatable characters? For the most part, the major theme of all DC heroes is a balance between immense responsibility and alienation from humanity. I’ll give you that DC characters are (sort of) more prone to being mythic or magical, but Marvel has it’s fair share.
And suggesting Batman get a drinking problem is ridiculous - the guy has some of the worst (most related) problems in the comic universe. And, Superman did have a crisis of faith in Superman Returns (which most people think sucked apparently).
I say DC should stick to what makes DC great and not try to reformulate based on what another comic universe is doing. And I don’t even understand that point - Bruce Banner is definitely a humane character, as is Tony Stark, but who else is Marvel going to make relatable? Thor?
What I can see is the origin differences. DC uses magic. Marvel uses science. Basically.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
I cant believe what any of you are saying, clearing some of you are on Marvel’s side because they have Iron Man. Which was a good movie but not better than The Hulk. It would be stupid if they make a Justice League or Avengers movie, you already have an Iron Man and Hulk movie why do you need to put them together. Same goes with DC, you already have Batman and Superman movies. DC doesnt have as many characters as Marvel but some are related to people. Some people need to stop comparing Tony Stark and Bruce Banner they are different in many ways. What they need to do rather than make a Thor movie or Ant Man movie, they should make a Black Panther movie or another F4 movie.
July 9th, 2008 at 4:26 am
What i like about Marvel is not only are they able to finance their own films, but they distribute them amongs other film companies. Not like DC where they only stick with Warner Bros only.
I’m excited about an Avengers movie
July 9th, 2008 at 7:39 am
i have to agree that marvel does create more relatable characters, and i believe that is because they do have a history. if you look at spiderman, his backstory is what creates his character into who he is. that’s also how dc portrays batman, which puts batman far beyond many other dc characters. you can’t just say clark kent grew up on a farm and expect him to be a relatable character. a lot of things are black and white in dc, just like saying there are good guys and bad guys. but if you look at the incredible hulk, he is an uncontrollable beast and tends to walk the line of good and bad in the way people see him (take for instance the ‘world war: hulk’ story). batman has that same aspect as the dark knight, where as he fights crime as a vigilante and not as a superhero. that is how the watchmen became so popular; by breaking the barrier of “cookie-cutter” superheroes and giving actual life to a story. if dc could put you on the edge of your seat, like marvel does on a consistent basis and maybe put superman in a movie where he doesn’t have to fight a green rock and a rich guy, we might have something to look forward to. dc has a lot of pieces to a great puzzle, but doesn’t know what to do with it yet. as for the avengers, i like the original team story to keep continuity with the comics, but i think they at least have to make a sequel and put the big guns in there. i’m talking about bringing spiderman and wolverine, and even luke cage and spiderwoman maybe. but favreau has to direct it, because he could give us the spiderman we know and love. i only say that because even in spiderman 3, peter parker was still nerd-version spiderman and didn’t make any jokes or sarcastic comments. i liked spiderman 3, but he was still just a college nerd with girl problems and more villains to fight. sam raimi better bring his “a”game if he’s going to do spiderman 4.
July 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I’ve always had an issue with the Time Warner?DC Comics film situation. This IS a no brainer. make movies that Connect. the one film I remember TRYING to make things connect was Batman Forever when Bruce mentions Metropolis.
I DO believe that DC should take a cue from Marvel on this. DC has no excuse not to create a movie Universe regardless whether or not we can relate to the characters. I don’t go see movies because I can relate to the characters, I see them because for 2 hours or more, I can forget about the cost of Gas or that my kid lost his glasses at school or that the cat spilled ink on a piece of art I just completed. I go to escape. Superman, IMHO does NOT need a reboot ala Hulk. It just needs a great movie. Singer has already admited to his mistakes w/ Returns and while i liked the movie, it could have been better.
DC/TW needs to allow the Whedon WW movie to happen. The man knows how to write a strong female character better then Jane Austin! He has a fan base, throw on top of that 1. The Comics fans 2. The fans of the Character (any little girl qwhen you get down to it) and 3. fans of the gorgeous woman who gets that role. CREATE a Universe. I would like to see Nolan do one more batman after this and Singer do one more Superman and Team up for a World’s Finest, 2 part film. Nolan does the Gotham end, Singer the Metropolis side. Pepper in WonderWoman and a few other heroes and next they create a JL film. I’m spoiler free on TDK, but IF the Joker pulls a Scarecrow and survives (IF anyone knows the answer to this, PLEASE don’t put it in their response) recast him with a Johnny Depp or Jake Gylanhal (sp?). Make this character the thorn in batman’s side he always has been!
This isn’t rocket science. a good script and a good director can create magic with ANY cast or character. Don’t be surprised when Marvel tightens it’s grip on their properties (By the way, you are aware that Marvel redid their contract with Sony… don’t be shocked if Spidey shows up in The Avengers).
I could go on and on, but I agree that DC should wise up to their films and I disagree that they shouldn’t look at Marvel’s films for what to do… DC’s movies, aside from Nolan’s Batman films and Superman 1 and 2, are too “What not to do’s”.
July 9th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
I’m sure I’ll be in the minority here, or totally alone, but I find the crossover stuff a bit gimmicky. Sure, I geek out, but it seems more like a marketing ploy than anything else.
They place Tony Stark in Hulk and instantly the fan-base has to see two movies instead of one. Not that these were bad movies (far, far from it), but the marketing is there. They create a need to see two or more movies instead of one in order to be in on the cultural conversation.
Which is genius.
But as for whether or not characters roll up in each other’s movies, I could take it or leave it.
As for recasting The Joker (if there’s a need) - I don’t see it being possible. The risk of destroying the experience for the audience is too great.
July 10th, 2008 at 8:13 am
I disagree with you all the way around. I don’t see it as a gimmick, I see it providing more entertainment and setting up the future of all these movies. Rumors are already flying that there won’t be a Hulk Sequel, that he’ll be in Iron Man II. That doesn’t bother me at all since IMHO you can only go so far with the Hulk. Adding him to IM would take away one film that frankly could just be more of the same old same old, whuile IM wrangling in the Hulk and then working together to solve a conflict just gets us closer to The Avengers.
As for recasting the Joker, IF the character survives this film, I would gladly see it put in the hands of someone that would respect what Ledger did.
We already know his performance is going to be stellar and chances are the character, even if he doesn’t die in the film, won’t return in the film series but if he had to, I think with the right actor in place, it would work.
July 17th, 2008 at 6:05 am
It doesn’t matter how bad someone thinks the previous movie is, when i hear the theme music for superman go “dum da da da dum dum,….dum dum dum etc…. I get chills. And I didn’t think Roth was a bad superman, in fact I though he was awesome. Lex was a little cheeky (would like to see him dark like in cartoons) but the movie was very good in my opinion. You say you can’t relate to DC heroes like superman, maybe its cause there aren’t very many people with good character left. I mean, it gave us character in Superman when he must choose between saving lois or metropolis during the earthquake….. the movie also gave us surprises (though not much of one but a pleasant one nonetheless) when Jason creamed skull head with the piano. Turn out superman has a son who he can’t just take to a movie when he wants to or fishing or even flying with. Tell me that don’t relate to a dad who’s been divorced and doesn’t get his kids all the time. It showed us a truly powerful but lonely being in superman. I liked how he recharged with the sun and I really liked that he was tough instead of a wimp like in Superman 4. I get sick and tired of enjoying a movie only to have people tell me is sucked. I know what I saw and 300 million at the box office pretty much means others liked it too. I hope the next one does have more action and IS better than the first one, but for crying out loud enjoy it or hate it when it comes out, not 2 yrs before it’s even filmed.
Now, Batman……Awsome reboot. Nuff said.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Here is what I think is wrong with DC; it’s tethered to a studio that doesn’t understand
it’s characters. It’d be like if Universal bought Marvel Comics. Marvel made a smart move
by creating their own studio, and putting Kevin Feige in charge of it, because he knows
the characters and does his best to stay true to them.
With Warner Bros., they are a third party, and a major studio at that. When there’s a big
franchise, they want as much control of the process as possible, which sometimes can
lead potentially good ideas to hit the burner because they may not be marketable to a
target audience.
I think Nolan’s Batman revamps have been the closest to the comics they’ve ever come,
but that’s because he had David Goyer helping him along the way. Because Goyer’s both
a screenwriter/filmmaker and a comic book writer, he is able “walk in both worlds” and
come up with stories that are true to the character’s histories while making something
appealing to an audience.
My opinion, in short, is if WB wants to enhance the quality of their DC projects, they need
to hire the writers of the comic books to write the scripts, or at very least CO-write with
someone with a little more hollywood cred.
August 12th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Dc should just take a story from a graphic novel and put it on the screen. Just like frank miller did with sin city and 300.
Marvel is crossing over all their films to show that it is one big connected universe. Can’t wait to see a live action wolverine vs hulk or spider man helping the f4.