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	<title>Comments on: Culture Warrior: Towards a More Thanksgiving-Friendly Cinema</title>
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		<title>By: Landon_Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-towards-a-more-thanksgiving-friendly-cinema-lpalm.php/comment-page-1#comment-153653</link>
		<dc:creator>Landon_Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/?p=59495#comment-153653</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify from re. the Dawkins reference, I am not, through science or any other means, trying to prove or disprove the validity of any religion with this--or for that matter, any--of my writing. With respect to the goals of this column, the question of the existence of any deity is not so important as how religious beliefs operate in contemporary culture. In this respect any of my own personal degrees of religious belief are irrelevant, as this is independent or subject to religion&#039;s larger role in culture, in which its intersection with commerce and mass ritual (the holiday) is far more relevant. In my methodology, relevance is more important than truth. As the outspoken atheist filmmaker Luis Bunuel (whose films often dealt with religion) once said, &quot;I am Christian by culture if not by faith,&quot; meaning that the religious culture around him (in this case, Spain and France) were more permeating and immediate than his own personal beliefs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And your initial criticism also depends on one&#039;s reading of history, and whether this country was founded by Puritans who instilled their value into the ideologies of democracy and capitalism, or the founding fathers, the most influential of whom were deists and some were likely agnostic. The freedom of religion does indeed imply the freedom of the individual to not have to subject themselves to religious influence. It gives them the option not to participate. This is not a Dawkins-style argument over the existence of the eternal, but an observation of how personal freedom operates within a free country. However, like the Bunuel quite indicates, religion can permeate non-theocratic nations to the degree that the option for &quot;freedom from religion&quot; is in fact a naive and impossible ideal.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And while I thank you for outlining the history of these holidays, and these historical factors are indeed determinations of how these holidays operate in contemporary society, I think it&#039;s a tough argument to make (though I should take a look at the history myself) that these holidays operate in the same way as they have historically, because even within our lifetimes the acceleration of consumer-frenzy culture has changed so much the nature of Christmas. On a personal or individual basis these holidays might operate on similar terms, but not on a grander scale.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thank you for your insightful feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify from re. the Dawkins reference, I am not, through science or any other means, trying to prove or disprove the validity of any religion with this&#8211;or for that matter, any&#8211;of my writing. With respect to the goals of this column, the question of the existence of any deity is not so important as how religious beliefs operate in contemporary culture. In this respect any of my own personal degrees of religious belief are irrelevant, as this is independent or subject to religion&#39;s larger role in culture, in which its intersection with commerce and mass ritual (the holiday) is far more relevant. In my methodology, relevance is more important than truth. As the outspoken atheist filmmaker Luis Bunuel (whose films often dealt with religion) once said, &#8220;I am Christian by culture if not by faith,&#8221; meaning that the religious culture around him (in this case, Spain and France) were more permeating and immediate than his own personal beliefs.</p>
<p>And your initial criticism also depends on one&#39;s reading of history, and whether this country was founded by Puritans who instilled their value into the ideologies of democracy and capitalism, or the founding fathers, the most influential of whom were deists and some were likely agnostic. The freedom of religion does indeed imply the freedom of the individual to not have to subject themselves to religious influence. It gives them the option not to participate. This is not a Dawkins-style argument over the existence of the eternal, but an observation of how personal freedom operates within a free country. However, like the Bunuel quite indicates, religion can permeate non-theocratic nations to the degree that the option for &#8220;freedom from religion&#8221; is in fact a naive and impossible ideal.</p>
<p>And while I thank you for outlining the history of these holidays, and these historical factors are indeed determinations of how these holidays operate in contemporary society, I think it&#39;s a tough argument to make (though I should take a look at the history myself) that these holidays operate in the same way as they have historically, because even within our lifetimes the acceleration of consumer-frenzy culture has changed so much the nature of Christmas. On a personal or individual basis these holidays might operate on similar terms, but not on a grander scale.</p>
<p>Thank you for your insightful feedback!</p>
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		<title>By: Landon_Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-towards-a-more-thanksgiving-friendly-cinema-lpalm.php/comment-page-1#comment-151760</link>
		<dc:creator>Landon_Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/?p=59495#comment-151760</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify from re. the Dawkins reference, I am not, through science or any other means, trying to prove or disprove the validity of any religion with this--or for that matter, any--of my writing. With respect to the goals of this column, the question of the existence of any deity is not so important as how religious beliefs operate in contemporary culture. In this respect any of my own personal degrees of religious belief are irrelevant, as this is independent or subject to religion&#039;s larger role in culture, in which its intersection with commerce and mass ritual (the holiday) is far more relevant. In my methodology, relevance is more important than truth. As the outspoken atheist filmmaker Luis Bunuel (whose films often dealt with religion) once said, &quot;I am Christian by culture if not by faith,&quot; meaning that the religious culture around him (in this case, Spain and France) were more permeating and immediate than his own personal beliefs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And your initial criticism also depends on one&#039;s reading of history, and whether this country was founded by Puritans who instilled their value into the ideologies of democracy and capitalism, or the founding fathers, the most influential of whom were deists and some were likely agnostic. The freedom of religion does indeed imply the freedom of the individual to not have to subject themselves to religious influence. It gives them the option not to participate. This is not a Dawkins-style argument over the existence of the eternal, but an observation of how personal freedom operates within a free country. However, like the Bunuel quite indicates, religion can permeate non-theocratic nations to the degree that the option for &quot;freedom from religion&quot; is in fact a naive and impossible ideal.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And while I thank you for outlining the history of these holidays, and these historical factors are indeed determinations of how these holidays operate in contemporary society, I think it&#039;s a tough argument to make (though I should take a look at the history myself) that these holidays operate in the same way as they have historically, because even within our lifetimes the acceleration of consumer-frenzy culture has changed so much the nature of Christmas. On a personal or individual basis these holidays might operate on similar terms, but not on a grander scale.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thank you for your insightful feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify from re. the Dawkins reference, I am not, through science or any other means, trying to prove or disprove the validity of any religion with this&#8211;or for that matter, any&#8211;of my writing. With respect to the goals of this column, the question of the existence of any deity is not so important as how religious beliefs operate in contemporary culture. In this respect any of my own personal degrees of religious belief are irrelevant, as this is independent or subject to religion&#39;s larger role in culture, in which its intersection with commerce and mass ritual (the holiday) is far more relevant. In my methodology, relevance is more important than truth. As the outspoken atheist filmmaker Luis Bunuel (whose films often dealt with religion) once said, &#8220;I am Christian by culture if not by faith,&#8221; meaning that the religious culture around him (in this case, Spain and France) were more permeating and immediate than his own personal beliefs.</p>
<p>And your initial criticism also depends on one&#39;s reading of history, and whether this country was founded by Puritans who instilled their value into the ideologies of democracy and capitalism, or the founding fathers, the most influential of whom were deists and some were likely agnostic. The freedom of religion does indeed imply the freedom of the individual to not have to subject themselves to religious influence. It gives them the option not to participate. This is not a Dawkins-style argument over the existence of the eternal, but an observation of how personal freedom operates within a free country. However, like the Bunuel quite indicates, religion can permeate non-theocratic nations to the degree that the option for &#8220;freedom from religion&#8221; is in fact a naive and impossible ideal.</p>
<p>And while I thank you for outlining the history of these holidays, and these historical factors are indeed determinations of how these holidays operate in contemporary society, I think it&#39;s a tough argument to make (though I should take a look at the history myself) that these holidays operate in the same way as they have historically, because even within our lifetimes the acceleration of consumer-frenzy culture has changed so much the nature of Christmas. On a personal or individual basis these holidays might operate on similar terms, but not on a grander scale.</p>
<p>Thank you for your insightful feedback!</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-towards-a-more-thanksgiving-friendly-cinema-lpalm.php/comment-page-1#comment-151517</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 07:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/?p=59495#comment-151517</guid>
		<description>&quot;...permeating to-do in a country that ascribes, in writing, freedom of religion to its citizens (which also, of course, implies freedom from religion)&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To free to choose one thing or another, does not imply the right to be free from the choice itself.  You would do well to be more careful in your choice of rhetoric as you step on both sides of a line with objective on one side and Richard Dawkins puppet on the other.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Despite originating with the Puritans, Thanksgiving in its modern form is not a religious holiday, so its meaning requires no altering to contain worth for a mass citizenship. And its themes are just as strong, if not stronger, than the themes surrounding Christmas&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You should acknowledge that Christmas originated as a Pagan holiday.  (The festival of the winter solstice.)  History indicates that Christ was probably a summer baby (May-July) as this is when the census would&#039;ve occurred (at the time that foot travel was most easily accomplished.)  Constantine mashed the celebration of Christ&#039;s birth with the solstice festival to try to bring the out of control masses and parties in check.  In other words, Christmas was originally created as a political move to control the populace.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Perhaps there&#039;s a reason Thanksgiving, formed by the Puritans solely as a celebration of God&#039;s providence and gratitude for His blessing, rings true to you.  Because you&#039;ve got the right concept, but your logic is flawed because it assumes an incorrect jumping off point.  Thanksgiving is fundamentally no different in form.  It is now what it was then.  Christmas is much the same.  One was a grateful celebration of providence, the other was a political move to elicit a particular response from citizenry.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;I’ve found each year that the ability to get into the Christmas spirit—not in a religious sense, but in the sense of being able to celebrate family, community, love, peace, and selflessness—requires me to actively avoid all the dominant signifiers of the holiday around me.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In my readings and study of the Bible, I sincerely imagine Christ Himself would describe the appropriate Christmas spirit quite similarly.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think Thanksgiving films are less prominent because mainstream culture sees Thanksgiving as &quot;pre-Christmas&quot;.  You&#039;re right in pointing out that there&#039;s ample material to jump onto and that the boat is simply being missed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;permeating to-do in a country that ascribes, in writing, freedom of religion to its citizens (which also, of course, implies freedom from religion)&#8221;</p>
<p>To free to choose one thing or another, does not imply the right to be free from the choice itself.  You would do well to be more careful in your choice of rhetoric as you step on both sides of a line with objective on one side and Richard Dawkins puppet on the other.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Despite originating with the Puritans, Thanksgiving in its modern form is not a religious holiday, so its meaning requires no altering to contain worth for a mass citizenship. And its themes are just as strong, if not stronger, than the themes surrounding Christmas&#8221;</p>
<p>You should acknowledge that Christmas originated as a Pagan holiday.  (The festival of the winter solstice.)  History indicates that Christ was probably a summer baby (May-July) as this is when the census would&#39;ve occurred (at the time that foot travel was most easily accomplished.)  Constantine mashed the celebration of Christ&#39;s birth with the solstice festival to try to bring the out of control masses and parties in check.  In other words, Christmas was originally created as a political move to control the populace.</p>
<p>Perhaps there&#39;s a reason Thanksgiving, formed by the Puritans solely as a celebration of God&#39;s providence and gratitude for His blessing, rings true to you.  Because you&#39;ve got the right concept, but your logic is flawed because it assumes an incorrect jumping off point.  Thanksgiving is fundamentally no different in form.  It is now what it was then.  Christmas is much the same.  One was a grateful celebration of providence, the other was a political move to elicit a particular response from citizenry.  </p>
<p>&#8220;I’ve found each year that the ability to get into the Christmas spirit—not in a religious sense, but in the sense of being able to celebrate family, community, love, peace, and selflessness—requires me to actively avoid all the dominant signifiers of the holiday around me.&#8221;</p>
<p>In my readings and study of the Bible, I sincerely imagine Christ Himself would describe the appropriate Christmas spirit quite similarly.  </p>
<p>I think Thanksgiving films are less prominent because mainstream culture sees Thanksgiving as &#8220;pre-Christmas&#8221;.  You&#39;re right in pointing out that there&#39;s ample material to jump onto and that the boat is simply being missed.</p>
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		<title>By: breeze</title>
		<link>http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-towards-a-more-thanksgiving-friendly-cinema-lpalm.php/comment-page-1#comment-151510</link>
		<dc:creator>breeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/?p=59495#comment-151510</guid>
		<description>I would argue that the purpose of having a shallow message at the beginnings and middles of films like &#039;Elf&#039; is so that the consumers like us (and like you were saying, everyone in America) can relate to the situations, and then see and &#039;learn&#039; the &#039;true spirit of Christmas&#039; message at the end. If we were attacked by that message from the get go, I would have a hard time relating. Besides, the whole point of these xmas films is to get ourselves in that christmas spirit of family and coming together, rather than what&#039;s drilled into us on every commercial and print ad we see for the next month.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;and btw i never really thought about jingle all the way (hence it is a pretty thoughtless film) but its pretty messed up how much it plays into that ferbie/tickle me elmo/whatever&#039;s popular this year consumer craze.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would argue that the purpose of having a shallow message at the beginnings and middles of films like &#39;Elf&#39; is so that the consumers like us (and like you were saying, everyone in America) can relate to the situations, and then see and &#39;learn&#39; the &#39;true spirit of Christmas&#39; message at the end. If we were attacked by that message from the get go, I would have a hard time relating. Besides, the whole point of these xmas films is to get ourselves in that christmas spirit of family and coming together, rather than what&#39;s drilled into us on every commercial and print ad we see for the next month.</p>
<p>and btw i never really thought about jingle all the way (hence it is a pretty thoughtless film) but its pretty messed up how much it plays into that ferbie/tickle me elmo/whatever&#39;s popular this year consumer craze.</p>
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		<title>By: Landon_Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-towards-a-more-thanksgiving-friendly-cinema-lpalm.php/comment-page-1#comment-151499</link>
		<dc:creator>Landon_Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/?p=59495#comment-151499</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jeff. I&#039;m sure if a movie called Jungle All the Way did exist, it would be better than Jingle All the Way...unless Sinbad was in it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Have a great Thanksgiving!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jeff. I&#39;m sure if a movie called Jungle All the Way did exist, it would be better than Jingle All the Way&#8230;unless Sinbad was in it.</p>
<p>Have a great Thanksgiving!</p>
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		<title>By: Kangaroo Be Stoned</title>
		<link>http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-towards-a-more-thanksgiving-friendly-cinema-lpalm.php/comment-page-1#comment-151494</link>
		<dc:creator>Kangaroo Be Stoned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/?p=59495#comment-151494</guid>
		<description>Another Excellent article, Landon. There is a spelling error, though: &quot;Jungle All the Way&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another Excellent article, Landon. There is a spelling error, though: &#8220;Jungle All the Way&#8221;.</p>
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